How to Make Learning Impossibly Fun | Mark Rober | TED

00:05Hello, TED members. I am Whitney Pennington Rogers. I'm a curator here at TED and I am so excited to be here with you today for this live member event. All right. Now, I want to think for a moment about your favorite teacher. Maybe some of you are students right now and you don't have to pull back into the far reaches of your memory like I do, but I want you to think about this person and the things that made them so special.

00:23how excited they might have made you feel, how they made the subject they were teaching you come alive and made you want to lean in during their lessons and not zone out. I think for a lot of us, teachers like this maybe feel like the exception instead of the rule.

00:40And when it comes to science, maybe even more so. But what if that didn't have to be the case? What if science could be the class that kids cannot wait to get to because it makes them laugh and beg to try everything out there for themselves?

00:52Our guest today has spent a lot of time trying to make science lessons just like that. He's a former NASA engineer, a YouTube phenom with tens of millions of subscribers and is undoubtedly one of the most beloved science communicators of our time.

01:05There is no question about this. Earlier this year, he took the TED stage at our flagship conference to share his boldest project yet, a $60 million bet on the next generation of problem solvers and a new STEM curriculum designed to make science the class kids actually want to be in.

01:23That talk has since become one of our most viewed talks of 2026 so far. and he's here today to share more with us about that project, the philosophy behind what he does, and break down how he sparks excitement about science again and again for kids of all ages all over the world.

01:42Please give a warm welcome to Mark Robber. Hello. How's everyone doing? Hey Mark, how's it going? Good. Good. Thanks so much for being here with us today. The big reveal in your talk was the public announcement of your free STEM science curriculum for for kids ages I guess grades three through eight class crunch labs.

02:05Um and you talk a lot about that in the talk and that's a big a big thing that you you put forward. What what led you to create it? I mean and to be fair like I don't talk about the talk's maybe like 14 minutes. I talk about it for like two minutes, but the whole point of the talk is to lead up to that in the sense that like peeling back the curtain on how we hide the vegetables and make learning science fun because if there's any subject in school that should be fun, heaven forbid it should be science.

02:34It's like so it's like we kind of peel back the car on how we do it and it's like okay now that you understand how the sausage is made this is the this is the kind of sausage we will be making for the next five years. Um, and so, and so like the the impetus for this came actually when my one of my buddies, his his kid came into the room and she was she she was like in probably 8th grade at the time.

03:07Like, what are you learning in science? I'm just curious, right? Because I do this on my channel. And she's like, "Oh, we just watched a Bill Nye video today." She showed me a worksheet that been copied probably 10,000 times. You know, each time you copy, there's like an artifact that comes along.

03:19Yeah. And I was like, and I love Bill, like he's a personal friend, but it's also those videos were made in the 90s, and this is a generation that has grown up on TikTok and YouTube, and there's like different tricks to, you know, reach their brains in engaging ways.

03:37And I'm just like, man, we we should we should do something like that for this generation because I know, you know, I've had to earn 18 billion views because on in YouTube, you could click on anything else, right? So, it's like you kind of get trained by the algorithm on how to make things engaging.

03:56And that was the start of it. And I one of my superpowers, I think, is naive optimism where it's like it seems really easy when I have an idea. I'm like, "Oh, yeah, we could do that. Sure." That's that shouldn't be a problem. It's been so much harder, but like I'm always continuously naively optimistic that's like, "Ah, that'll be fine."

04:20So, it's been a complete journey. It's it's evolved to be way more than I was initially planning on doing, but it's so clear that this is the right way to do it. This is the right approach. It needs to be done, and we're the right people to do it.

04:32So, we're just going full steam ahead. I love that. And and you you said that it's uh you think it's the most important thing you'll ever do. And I remember watching you give the talk and you got a little emotional as you were sharing this.

04:45And if you can remember back to being on the stage, what what were you thinking about in that moment when you got really choked up? Um I don't know. Like I I really do have such a soft spot in my heart for teachers. Like if I just teach him about teachers even like right now a little bit like I get a little emotional.

05:09It's like like teach it's so tough especially today to be a teacher just because of a lot of factors and it's kind of the most important job in on the planet and so and they're not compensated as well as they like we should be ashamed I think I said that like we should be ashamed of like the support teachers actually get um for the importance of what they do and um yeah I don't know I just I've always had a soft spot in my heart for the underdog and for the especially an underdog who really really really really deserves it.

05:46And so if I'm in a position to help them out then it just feels like you know what is life but working hard at work worth doing and like this feels like the most worthwhile work and like you know the most impact that I can you know have and affect change in like the most positive way cuz it's just no one's done anything like this.

06:04And then when we're ready to release it too, you know, a lot of times with edte and things, adoption is so hard, but like we're already teachers already show my videos in 40% of classrooms, but it's jello pools and squirrel obstacle courses and glitter bombs.

06:23It's not necessarily totally aligned with the curriculum. So, all right, let's take all those tricks, make something that is totally aligned, exceeds all the state science standards. Um, and and and and then put it out there. And then I'll just tell, you know, I could tap a mic and get 50 million people to listen.

06:36So I'll just say, hey, if you know, tell your teacher, you want to watch this and you want you want to do this for your class curriculum and I'll sell that directly to the teachers and we'll have a map of the whole United States in every single school district and we're going to have three teacher and three parent volunteers in every single district.

06:53So like we we're going to roll this out in a way that like no one's ever been able to or done. And then we'll also go, you know, properly through the states for bottoms down, top up. Um, we're just gonna get this out there and and not because it's like I have skin in the game, but like we're making sure it's five times better than anything else.

07:19Like we're independent folks are like running actual like curriculum studies and versus control in a classroom. So I don't want to waste my time or my money or anyone else's money and time if this isn't way better. like that's the hypothesis.

07:31So, we're just going to tweak it until it is way better and just get this goodness out in the world for free. I know a lot of folks, especially some of our younger members who are watching, are really interested to hear more about you and your journey.

07:43And so, I'd love to talk a little bit about that. Um, I think most people who follow you know that you have this background as an engineer at NASA and Apple and and that before you started doing the work that you do, when would you say that your love of science began?

08:03I mean like from a from an early age I think I just had a you know I think if anyone here has more than one child I know kids come pre-programmed and I just had an inclination towards kind of math and science and the physical world you know taking apart the remote control um also just like coming up with cool ideas like the first job I ever wanted to do was be a an architect but specifically designing McDonald's play places.

08:32So, I remember I my like white sheet of paper and my pencil and my rule and I'm like, "Okay, you're going to start here and the ball pit's going to be here. There's going to be these tubes." Like, I got all these cool designs, which is kind of full circle moment because now we have Crunch Labs, which is like our headquarters, which is like a Willy Wonka factory for engineering that has secret passageways and foam pits and, you know, pistons and pianos that play themselves and and staircases.

08:56It's an infinite slinky staircase in a robot you can play rock paper scissors against that you can never beat. So it's like that actually my first job I wanted I eventually got just in the very secure securest route. Um, so yeah, and then and then I think specifically when I took high school physics, I was just like, "Oh, this feels very good that like I can predict the world around me with math and equations and there's one right answer and it doesn't matter where I grew up or what language I speak, you know, if I drop this rock off the

09:33building, like we will all come up with the same answer." And then not just that, you can literally predict the future. You can build something that you can send to Mars that having never gone there, it's like, well, we have the equations. It should actually hit the planet if we launch at this point when it's, you know, 90 m million miles away.

09:52If we launch at this velocity, at this trajectory, like eventually those two should hit and then we could get from the upper atmosphere 25,000 miles an hour down to a comfortable six miles an hour to land in seven minutes. It's like you can predict all of these things and that it's like a crystal ball that actually works and that is very appealing to me.

10:16And a lot of folks who have shared some questions about your your story or your journey uh are just curious about engineering specifically like how did you know that that was the path when you think about all the things you could be in the STEM world that this was where you wanted to to go?

10:30Yeah, I think specifically mechanical engineering really appealed to me versus like electrical because I like to be able to see and create and build something physical I can touch. Um because there's a lot of different engineering. Um and I don't know, it's just one of those things like the more I I I got into it, the more I was like, "Oh, I like this."

10:48And then straight out of school, I got a job. I just got really lucky to work at NASA. you know, my resume was just in a pile of résumés. Right place at the right time. Um, and I think that what's the saying? Something like fortune is what happened when preparation meets luck or something.

11:08And certainly I got a little lucky. And yeah, and then I was at NASA for a decade. Seven of those were working on the Mars Curiosity Rover. So my hardware is up there on Mars. I think currently it's 120 million miles away. You can see it in the night sky.

11:28the little red dot and I know that like I touched and designed and built and tested and integrated something that's on that specific dot in the sky um is really cool. Another actually another really cool thing about Mars is really fun is there's not really a lot of oxygen so things don't break down and like rust basically.

11:46So long after us humans are gone and all of our structures and everything has crumbled away and nature has just taken over everything in a million years, aliens will come and they'll see these rovers on Mars and just be like, "What the heck?

11:58Where did these come from?" Like what? I don't get it. Yeah. You've like built these things that will out outlast and outlive you and and probably all of us on this call in some way. All of us and everything we've built like you know what I mean?

12:16like in a million years they'll still be there and every single structure on Earth is crumbled away into dust. So it's like pretty wild. You know, you liken what you do to sort of like hiding the vegetables, right? Like you're essentially wrapping like important hard to swallow things in glitter and things like that.

12:33Um and you do it using like humor and spectacle and um you know, now you're offering the blueprint for people to to do this themselves. And I'm I'm sure there are a lot of teachers though who watch and think, you know, well, but I'm I'm not Mark Robber and I can't do it the way that you do it.

12:53So, like what would you say to people who feel like they don't have the the personality, I guess, to pull some of this off? Yeah, I would say I mean, and this is like the point in the TED talk was like the trick to make a video go viral. The trick to sort of like remembering, this is kind of like how I framed it, is like you just have to feel something in your heart.

13:17Like if you want to reach someone's brain, you have to enter through the heart. You can't you can't start here. This is why, you know, if you're trying to convince someone out of like a being a conspiracy theorist or something, someone who believes the earth is flat, you can't go to them with a list of facts and like try and reach their brain of why it's not flat.

13:35Like you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. Like the reason they got into that is they had a friend and like it was a community and they're feeling they're getting something here that feels really worthwhile and so you got to start here.

13:54And for me that is in the TED talk. Blow up this trash can full of ping pong balls, right? Or it's someone stole a package from my house and everyone knows that feeling. So, I, you know, engineered a glitter bomb with fart spray to get them back that records them on four phones and uploads it to the cloud.

14:13Like, you have to evoke some kind of visceral reaction for people to remember it, for people to care, to affect change. And so, I think that's step one. And even in the talk I did this like in a meta I don't know how many people even picked up on this but at the end when I was like talking about class crunch labs and you know I said like so to all those teachers out there in the trenches like I want you to know reinforcements are on the way like when I got to that punchline like I was very adamant that Ted let me like play music

14:44not just in the video but in the auditorium because it's like this is me demonstrating my point of how you hide the vegetables of how you get people to remember of how you have impact is like you have to feel something here and music helps with that.

14:57And so, you know, if if if you're a teacher out there and you're feeling like you're not like reaching the kids, like start here, not here, you're not it's not like if you just used a slight different word to explain it, you know, then it's going to work.

15:14like they don't they don't care what you know until they know that you care and that it it kind of speaks to that and so I think if you if you start them knowing that you care even if it's just like in your level of effort and like paying attention to them like you will you will I think you'll find it's easier to reach them here and that this look this is the beauty of class crunch labs too is like I do realize that you know people have different skill sets and abilities right and for whatever reason the way we teach science, we have

15:48solved a lot of that motivation gap, which is like 90% of the challenge of teaching. And so it's like, let's team up. Like I can't do this on my own. You can't just play a video in a class and expect it to actually teach them like, but let's team up.

16:03So that's the whole point of class crunch labs is I kick it off with a video and then the teacher takes it over and it's like asking engaging questions and like getting them going and then I come back with the video and I throw it back to the teacher.

16:15So like that's the only way this could work and that's kind of the premise behind it that it will it will feel like sort of co-eing with you in a way. 100% it'll feel like co-eing and honestly the teacher still the teacher is the hero to be very clear and I'm kind of just like teeing it up for them you know and just like hey kids I'm gonna say this thing now your teacher's going to take it from here you know and they become the focal point and I just keep like teeing it up you know giving them an assist

16:46I love that you you know you mentioned at one point during our conversation that this is a generation of of kids who are consuming things differently it's not you It's not Bill Nye's science generation of consumers. Um, and I guess when you think about where kids are today, do you think there's a a bigger appetite for for the kind of content you're creating now than there might have been a decade ago because of how people are looking at stuff online?

17:14Yeah, it's a good question. I would say like I mean human brains don't change that much from a single generation to a single generation. I mean it takes hundreds if not thousands of generations to like have us evolve. So I think the raw DNA was always there, but just like the ability um I think like yeah the ability the fact that YouTube even exists that you know when I grew up you'd have to wake up on Saturday if you want to see a cartoon set your alarm and you get two hours of it on like ABC on Saturday morning and

17:51now you can just like every cartoon that is ever invented every single episode is available in like a window. So, it's like you have all this content here. Um, which is a which is a blessing and a curse. It's like it's it makes it challenging.

18:03You know, I I have to constantly up up update sort of how I'm doing what I'm doing to stay, you know, the audience appetite can change and what used to be spectacle and interesting and make you have that visual reaction 10 years ago like it takes more now, right?

18:22So it is this almost like arms race of of keeping the content interesting and relevant um such that I can evoke that visceral reaction and then reach the brain with like the cool thing I want them to remember. But I it's a challenge but it's one I welcome and I think it's really fun and it keeps it fresh and interesting for me you know and of course there's like a debate you know that's happening out there about screens and kids and attention and of course you're most successful people on the planet at capturing uh people especially kids attentions on screens.

18:54So how do you think I guess when you when you factor the work you're doing into it? How do you think about the the role you play in in that conversation? And and yeah, I think an important part about it actually is that um and one of the early feedbacks we've got from these studies that they're doing.

19:15A big part that I I just briefly touched on the talk is we have the videos, we have the teacher leading them, but there's these hands-on activities where you're actually like say for example for kinetic energy, actually for potential energy.

19:26This is a really fun one. You build a little a little tower and then you know those water blobs that like you see sometimes at lake where someone jumps on and then someone goes flying. Well for potential energy you know the higher you well we actually don't say this but we we started out with this lesson that's the anchoring phenomenon.

19:49So you're like that is interesting. We're showing people flying. We show a car go down and like a crash test dummy go flying like all these visual things to get you hooked. But then in your classroom, you get a um you get like a Ziploc bag, you make your own blob and you make your own little tower and and then you have a little guy that goes flying and and we don't tell you the equation for potential energy, which is I'll say it here, which is mass times gravity times height, mgh.

20:16You just start dropping different things. And what you start to notice is that only two things affect how your guy goes flying. the higher you raise the thing that you're dropping that somehow seems to have an effect. And also if it's same height but heavier also seems to have effect and send your guy.

20:35So you're kind of like Scooby-Dooing your way to this equation without us even giving you. So you get like an intuition for it which is much more valuable than just memorizing an equation. But what's really fun is like the guy that goes flying, it's this little crash test dummy.

20:50And these can be really expensive that like force sensors to measure how much GeForce. And so the constraint I've given the toy engineers, you know, these product designers with engineering degrees is like it can't for a classroom, it can't cost $10, it can't cost $5, it has to cost zero dollars.

21:12literally has to be made from just stuff teachers have lying around the classroom or you'd find in the trash can. And so for kinetic energy, we build these little cards, which are note card and and two, you know, binder clips and then like the tops of a um of like a soda bottle are the wheels that you poke a hole through.

21:32Um, and that and like so these hands-on activities that the kids are doing for each for each, you know, engineering or each principal, each science control are really where a lot of the learning is coming. Again, we're tacking it here. When your science when your blob guy goes flying like, "Oh my gosh, did you see mine?

21:48Look how high mine went." Suddenly, they're stoked. They're engaging. They're showing each other versus like sitting in a classroom and a teacher just sage on the stage being like potential energy is mass times gravity times height. Please memorize this.

22:07Right? You start the other way around. You start with the wow and then and then we give you the how. But you got to start with the part that engages your heart first. So that's the point is it's not just like sit back and listen to me tell you potential energies mgh.

22:21It's more like I tee up the problem. The anchoring phenomenon for that unit in potential energy is like, wait, why? Wait a second. Look, go back. Play that back. Why did why did he go that the the kid go this high one time, but then the next time he went way higher?

22:39The heck's going on there? Right? And then the kids scooby-Doo their way to the answer, and we're never speedoon feeding. Each lesson, they get a little bit closer to that answer. It's it's kind of turning science education on its head. And we didn't even invent that.

22:51like open sed is a great example of a they kind of pioneered this in like 2019 like so they've done a great job um of like just showing how how much better you can teach science how much more can be remembered how much more exciting it could be if you do it this way versus just like I said sage on a stage here's the right answer memorize it or even just person on screen who's telling you you're in a lot person on screen the thing is it's very engaging ing and it's very like but also like uh almost half of the downloads so

23:31far of the pilot has been homeschool um uh folks who do homeschooling to make it engaging. So but even then they are seeing it on the screen but then they are taking it and they're doing stuff in real time. It's not just engaging on a screen.

23:45Um I I think you can't ignore that. And I'm really good friends with Sal Khan, you know, who does Khan Academy. um obviously very connected to Ted and you know and he's he's mentioned this like you know we'll probably partner up in some way.

23:57We are a yes and situation too like that's why we're telling everyone they can use our curriculum. If other people are doing curriculum they should come to Crunch Labs. We'll show them what we're doing. We'll share notes. This is a rising tide you know raises all boat situation.

24:10We want this to work for home school, charter school, private school, title one schools, like everything. This is a shotgun approach and that's why we're making it free is because as soon as you charge a dollar it creates this friction. So we just want to create this goodness and if people even there's people who charge for curriculum uh you know and if they want to use our curriculum in theirs and charge for it fine you know maybe they have to pay a license fee to donate to our nonprofit which is crunchlabs.org But like everyone this is open source like anyone

24:49can use this you know what I mean like we don't have our only goal is just reach and impact there's no world where we make any money off this. Yeah. Well, I mean, we have a question from Shendy S about, you know, how far this reach goes, you know, wondering if there's interest and opportunity in making this accessible to people who who are outside of the US at some point.

25:08And, you know, 100%. That is the ultimate goal. We we're very good at walking, you know, crawling before we walk, walking before we run. Um, a lot of our downloads, it's free. You can go to crosscrunchlabs.org and you can download all the curriculum.

25:26They're editable. So like even the curriculum, it's not like a PDF. We put it in Google Docs. So you could take that and you could copy and paste it, you could change it and make it whatever you want to make it exactly what you want. Um and eventually we will, you know, once we nail it in the US and like have it figured out, then yeah, it is a it's a matter of of scaling that worldwide.

25:48And you know, I think there are science standards in the US. I think there are another a number of countries who are starting to adopt our science standards um and that makes it easier but you know you got to start somewhere because currently different countries do have like slightly different standards instead of trying to make something for everything.

26:06We'll make it for ours. We know we signed standards and we know 95% of that will be pretty applicable to others but then you know country by country we can slightly tweak it as needed. Well, I think thinking about just sort of the future and where things head um not just for for Crunch Labs, but in for science education in general, especially online.

26:25um you know everyone of course like so many conversations all roads lead to artificial intelligence and how that factors in and what like for you when you think about the work you do if you're thinking you know 20 years ahead when we have and even today we have AI tutors and VR classrooms all of that like what is how does that change what a human like you or a teacher looks like in in that equation?

26:51Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I think as you get I mean, I I have this piece of glass and metal here that I can use my thumbs to touch in a very specific way and get an answer, a very good answer to any question on Earth. Any question I could potentially ask, even if it's very personal to me and my inputs in my world, like I can get a a very good answer.

27:18And so the real skill becomes asking the question, the right question or even asking a question period. In other words, curiosity. And I think as AI becomes more and more like things that inspire curiosity and and that reach here become more important than ever.

27:37Um, and I I see it I think AI could be a great tool. I mean there's one example which I really love. I was thinking about the other day where it's like even in a classroom if they have you know some some classrooms do have computers there there could be a situation where there's like an AI Mark Robber or AI BAM who's also is one of our toy engineers at Crunch Labs that everyone loves where her or I it's like all right design your catapult you know for this potential potential like design it and

28:13then show it to AI Mark Rover you know and then I look at it and it's an AI version of It's like, "Oo, that's really good, but what where's your energy source? You might want to relook at that." And then they go back and then they show it to me again.

28:19I'm like, "I love that. That's so good. Raise your hand. Tell your teacher you're ready." So, it's like I'm actually kind of like tutoring each each, you know, me or Bam or someone is like working with them. And then there's the teacher. But I think you I think you'll always need a human element there.

28:36Even if it's like that and it's like a simulated human element, just like a robot coming in and teaching you something, I I think you're fighting against a couple million years of evolution there that like that's never really going to do it.

28:57So, it's like how do you combine how do you make the best out of it? I don't think it's the right answer to be like isue everything AI and be like absolutely not. No, I don't think it's the right answer to just a robot should be doing all of these things.

29:09So, it's like what's the best of both worlds? How do you combine those in a way that's like um that maximizes the impact? And I I think there's going to be some great ideas there. Yeah, I think there's really powerful, you know, another good example is like what we're making with Class Crunch Labs is the fresh ingredients, you know, but you can you can make different meals with those fresh raw ingredients.

29:34So a teacher could be like, "Look, I have 17 students. You know, half of them have this learning disability. Um, we've already covered this topic and this topic. They struggled with this. They nailed this. Take the cross climbs ingredient this next unit and customize it for me."

29:54Right? And it would be really good at moving all the ingredients. Okay. This is this is going to speak just to what you need. But you got to start with something good. the input has to be good to get a a quality output. And so I I I see like that's another really great use case where AI would be awesome with this.

30:12It's it's more Yes. And it seems like just how can you do both? Yeah. Yeah. Well, Mark, we have some fun questions from from kids um who are either of members or somehow became TED members themselves before before they um became adults. Um and so I'm going to share some of those with you.

30:29Um, usually people don't put their age when they share a question, but we have a lot of that. So, Winston K, who's eight, um, asked if you plan to visit space one day and how common will do you think space travel will be by 2040? Winston. What a great By when?

30:462040. Which is soon. It's soon. Yeah, 2040. I I think we'll definitely be on Mars. Um, I was just at I don't know if I'm allowed how much I'm allowed to say, but I will say three days ago I was at SpaceX um talking about something potentially in the next year or two.

31:03Um, if everything goes right. So, space is definitely in my near future. Um, uh, also there's some man, there's so much cool stuff to say in the next year or two. I'm going to be going to some very very interesting places. Uh and and and for everyone else, space travel, I mean, you could get to Australia from Los Angeles in like 45 minutes if you travel to space.

31:29Um so I I think it will become much more common. I think I think for everyone I mean Winston, it was Winston's eight years old, right? Winston for sure you will go to space. I'll say that much. It's exciting. there. I feel like there's a stay.

31:51Keep watching Mark Robber for more information about like where what's on the horizon there. There's some cool opportunities coming up that kind of revolve around getting people excited about science education by me going to from some pretty wild places.

32:09All right. All right. We'll take it. Um, so Rory, who didn't share their age, but said that they are a kid, um, asked, "What is your favorite thing that you've ever made, and how do you think of what to make next?" How do you think what to next?

32:22I mean, favorite thing I've ever made. That's hard. We just did a robot goalie that that Ronaldo couldn't score on, like a a soccer goalie that moved back and forth at 40 miles an hour, and then we tracked the shot. Really, that was really fun.

32:41um the uh you know as far as what to make next. I think that's the beauty of being engineer is like it's not like oh the ideas come I mean almost never certainly when I was doing it on my own now we'll do it just because it's kind of fun with the team but like they almost never come from like I'm going to sit down today for an hour and I will brainstorm ideas never like I came up with a squirrel obstacle course when squirrels were stealing my bird seed and most people would just be like gosh darn it steals are, you know, squirrels are stealing all my bird seed.

33:15But I'm I saw an opportunity and I was like, wait, what if I really made them earn it with an eight part ninja warrior obstacle course? The birds could come and go as they please. The only way for a squirrel to do that is if he like solved all my things and I'm going to name them and, you know, I'm going to make it a thing.

33:34So, it's like uh or someone literally stole a package from my porch and I was very sad and I was sad for about a week and then I was like, "Wait a second. What if I devised a way to get back at these guys because I put her over on Mars." So, I should be able to come up with something that would be fun and exciting to get some revenge.

33:57So, so much so many of the ideas just come from conversations, everyday life. The key is you just always have to have that part of your brain engaged of like what would my solution be? So if you can start thinking like that, I think you'd be surprised how many opportunities are right in front of you at all times.

34:14You just got to get your head in that mind space. And I think that is some I do get that feedback sometimes from parents where it's like my kid watched one Mark Robber video and suddenly they're inventing ways to you know capture the rainwater on the roof and and and power a light bulb and to take the remote and turn it into like a you know a beam sensor when their kid their sister enters the room.

34:36I I love that, you know. I love being the catalyst for everyone thinking in their own domain how they can, you know, come up with their own clever ideas. They don't have to be that complicated, right? But like literally, if you're watching this right now and and you're a kid or if you're an adult, like, you know, a good thought starter is like, how do you turn off the light in your room while you're in bed?

35:02You know, that could look like a lot of different. Maybe it's a string on a thing that comes through. Maybe it's like a a weighted thing. Maybe it's like a a target that you shoot your dart gun at that hits it. You know that that can be a very using a lot of just duct tape and ingenuity and junk around your house.

35:20Like what does that look like for you? And then once you do that, you'll realize like that was cool. I learned this and now I'm gonna figure out this new thing. How do I make my door so it automatically closes? You know, you can just it's it's a really fun way of seeing the world.

35:31Well, ton of folks, Paul who is 13, Sophul who's 11, Luca who's seven, they all want to know what is the hardest or most interesting part of engineering. Um, I think the hardest part is also the most fun part, which is like it's it's never been done before.

35:49You're willing something into existence that's never existed. So, that's the opportunity. The challenge is like it doesn't exist because it might be really hard to make it exist. And so it's just this constant feedback loop. The number one mistake people make when they're trying to build something is they want their final version to be their to be their to be they're the first version to be their last the final.

36:13And nothing that exists in the world. You know these scissors right here went through so many prototypes to get to this final form. Did not start looking like this. And so same with these these headphones, same with this literally this cap.

36:27Like the amount of revisions that this has gone through to get here is in the hundreds. And so that is the challenge is like just start somewhere. Start with cardboard and duct tape as your first prototype and then get better and better and refine it until it is like something that works really well.

36:44And each time you solve a few more problems and do another version, solve a few more problems. Um, so, so that's the great opportunity and the great challenge is it's a it's a it's work and it's iterative, but that that's the fun part. It's a journey.

37:02Um, well, Mark, as we're winding down the conversation, um, you know, we've talked so much about what you're creating with Class Crunch Labs and just what you've been doing just in general with creating science content for all these years. when you're uh you know 80 or an old man and you're looking back at all that you've done, how how do you think you'll know that CR excuse me, Class Crunch Labs worked?

37:26How will you know that what you've done was successful? Uh I'll never get to that point and and I'm okay with that. Like I love mountains to climb, you know? I I I don't tend to look back very often. It's more just like, oh, but what else could we do?

37:43So, it's like someone else can can figure out if it's been successful or not. Like that's I mean I will I will I will always be analyzing it and figure out what more we could do to tweak it to make it better. But like I don't engage a lot in like, oh, let me look back and be like, "Wow, look at all we've accomplished."

38:00Because there's so much more cool stuff to do. Like there's always more mountains and and fun things. And like that is the joy, you know? It's the It's the happiness of the pursuit, not the pursuit of happiness. And so I get the most joy and happiness when it's like I take something exactly what I just said, the iteration and like making it a little bit better.

38:24Making a little bit better. And so if someone else wants to look at it when I'm 80 and be like, "Oh, it was good." And therefore, you know, mission accomplished, great. But I won't. I'll be like, "Yeah, but we, you know, we haven't got it nailed in Korea yet.

38:34So let's do that." And that's not to say like I'm not happy or satisfied. Like I do take great satisfaction, but I take satisfaction in like the the leveling up. And then hey, sure enough, what you find I think at some point is you have this body of work behind you that's speaks for itself that hopefully has impact.

38:54But like I will I don't ever want anything named after me like a building. I don't I don't believe in generational wealth. I don't like all that stuff is so like even the concept of legacy to me doesn't even make a ton of sense. I don't personally I just don't get it.

39:13That's not what I'm working for. And so um I I I appreciate the question. I think it's the right question to ask and it's an opportunity to just say like it almost is confusing to me because that's just not how my brain works. It's like what else can we do?

39:26How else could we improve this? Yeah, it's the process. you're just constantly in there of the process and then if you do that they're things I think do tend to work well if you incrementally every year you're improving by 5% that's like compounding results you know.

39:45Yeah. Well that those feel like words to live by and and maybe a good place to end. Thank you so much Mark for everything you've shared. I've learned a lot. I know everyone in the in in the comments have been saying how much they've learned.

39:52So thank you for sharing all this with us and taking some time today. Love it. Thank you guys so much. Really appreciate the time.