How to find THE soulmate for startup | Tracksuit, Matt Herbert & Connor Archbold

00:00can you share the story of hanging out with Sam Alman I was launching Al's first accelerator program Sam Alman was like visiting New Zealand I just like bothered him in his Twitter DM you like surfing no answer eventually I got him like oh that'd be great when I said something like oh I can maybe get an investor to provide like a big boat and we could do a tour of a harbor and so first of all I didn't have a boat but he said oh that'd be great I'd love to meet some New Zealand startup went and found a boat from some investor in New Zealand but the investor was like fishing guy he

00:25wanted to go fishing Sam was vegan at the time I got this boat but the only way we could use it as if the guy could take us fishing it's just like oh I'm sorry we're hauling up all these poor fish and you're sitting there just like chilling in the inside of the boat talking to a few startup he was Running Y combinator I was trying to launch New Zealand's first accelerator program maybe to start could you please introduce yourselves yeah I'm Matthew Herbert co-founder and co-coo of trackit and I'm Connor arold co-founder and co-ceo of tracksuit tell us a little bit

00:58about tracksuit what this it do what problem is it solving tracksuit as a brand tracking platform the best way to measure top of funnel marketing the problem that we're solving in in marketing and brand building is there's two jobs to be done the 95 and the and the 5% the two jobs the 5% in any category there are about 5% of people who are ready to buy from you right now and that's one job go and get those people to buy from your your product and your Brands but at the same time there's 95% of people who will come into the category aren't ready to buy from you

01:27right now but what are you doing to build your famili familiarity and and emotional closeness and and make people fall in love with your with your company and your brand so that when they are ready to buy they're going to come and buy from your business over the last you know 15 years or so the world of marketing has been so focused and successful at measuring 5% of people or the bottom of the funnel the sales the conversions at the expense of the 95 and so what we're doing at tracksuit is building the best way to measure how well you're building your brands with

01:54the 95% of people that will come into the category and they're going to choose your brand essentially tracksuit we do surveys of humans to find out what they think and feel about Brands that's novel because any company in the world hasn't been able to afford this it's only being available for Enterprise companies who have $200,000 to pay for market research reports that end up sitting on a desk Gathering dust and we've created a beautiful dashboard with you know we're collecting surveys every single day for 7,000 Brands now globally we help those marketers understand what people think

02:26and feel about those Brands and how did you two meet we we met at a previous startup we started on the same day when we were much younger mat was like the first SDR ended up looking after all of APAC I started as like sweep the FL floors generalist guy ended up as coo based out of New York yeah tracksuit we we both moved back to New Zealand many years later and tracksuit was sort of started off the back of a weekly coffee when we were figuring out what was next for both of us this goes back eight years colleagues friends and now and now co-founders having another go with you

02:58know with trackit bring on the all the learnings from our from our experience to you know build a company that we really wanted to do and so yeah 8year journey and few more to come one thing I wanted to ask is uh how would you describe each other and you can describe each other as friends but also as co-founders colleagues however you want to go about this but yeah how would you describe each other who's going first all right I'll start I'll start all right so con and I I've known each other for eight years now colleagues friends business partners Founders and so the

03:29way describe Connor as a person as a leader is just a little bit like a big grizzly bear and what I mean by a big grizzly bear okay is that he's the first one to come over and give everybody a big hug but every now and then he can show a little bit of teeth and a little bit of raw okay and he's the best at just at at honestly at drive at driving at driving forward and that's a a big part that when we came together I mean compliment child I know exactly what Connor's going to say so that's why I wanted to get in first he's like a big grizzly bear he looks tough and scary

04:00a big S but when he needs to drive he he can drive really well all right there's a reason the beard is just growing it out more and more all right yeah Matt I'll go I'll go with spirit animal as well I guess so Matt um I think like he's the perfect cross of like a border collie and like Golden Retriever and that he's the he's the stick with me here he's he will make your day every day in the office like you are stoked to run into Matt in the hallway Matt is stoked to run into you in the hallway everyone appreciates Matt's energy and what he brings but he also is like in every

04:43meeting he's like okay what what are the next steps like what are we doing he's keeping us on task he's keeping us focused and it's a really yeah it's a nice combination and we work really well together he also just like make sure the team are focused if he sees a ball bouncing somewhere he runs really quickly no just um but yeah it's it's a really nice combo he's just super kind and always has a smile but keeps you on task keeps you focused and keeps you moving you know I think one thing I think was is worth touching on here and why this is working why I just love working and and

05:15leading tracksuit with with Connor is that it's so complimentary and one of the the very first I me couple of weeks as we were coming in to start trackit what we did is we did not only personal Behavior profiling but team profiling and so this is where you say who do who do I think I am as a person but what do my teammates and what do my old colleagues perceive me as and so you get this really objective view around not only what I think but what does my team think we went through this exercise where Conor and I both did this and it comes out to say what is Connor what is Matt

05:48where are our strengths where our weaknesses but more so what are the things just to watch out where's Connor going to go and this is where Connor's driving and really good and compliments me and where are there where are the some areas where you know I'm leaning into to my superpowers or or My areas but just knowing where we might cause tension where we might see the world in different ways and so having that as a framework about who we are how we operate how we build and operate and teams together I think has had you know a really impactful and huge impact on

06:22who we are as As Leaders as friends as colleagues but also the type of culture and teams that we're building at tracksuit you know what your role is in any given team situation which is quite fascinating if you know that you're the strongest creative Problem Solver or the strongest driver you know that when you see people struggling with a problem that it's your turn to step in or you know when you see people kind of deliberating for too long it's your turn to step in and drive it forward and just make a call and so yeah once you understand how you fit in with the team

06:53you are able to kind of embody that trait at the right time and so yeah it was it was is fascinating to do that and it has helped we've done it for every single person we're now at 100 employees everyone knows what their roles are how they should and can interact with the team super helpful and then you also decided to become co-ceos that must have also been a very intentional decision as co-founders so maybe help us understand how that decision was made I I mean when we started truit we both were doing everything it was just and because we were bootstrapped it was just like half

07:28the time you're doing demo if you close customers they're your customers and you run it and we're both sort of thinking about product and iterating and it kind of naturally started that way where we were both kind of doing it all and just talking about the opportunity and then as we started bringing on team members I think you look at what we were doing and it's like this is perfect the way it is like let's not upset the apple cat I think Coos is it's a like it's a really interesting thing that you have to be intentional with and we redraft our JDS almost every 6 months I'd say where the

08:01company's changing really fast so we need to adapt and change really fast and so yeah it's that relationship has updated what we focus on at any given time has changed the main thing is that we have to be really good at communicating just maintain that like solid connection ourselves yeah it's worked so far and I think it would you know we can hire better people into a CPO position or a COO position who've been there and done that and there's almost a bit of a hack in Matt can be in London being a CEO and I can be in New Zealand being a CEO so it's like 247

08:35coverage yeah it's double it's double trouble yeah and I mean and I've heard I've heard a couple times where around if you're a CEO or a Founder founder CEO you're the one that gets the least amount of feedback in the business until you're really intentional about that and so to be able to do that together give each other feedback take on each other's feedback and have that ongoing dialogue is so important so that you know really lines and clear on what we're trying to do here at trackit but also you know see the world in slightly different ways and compliment but it's that ongoing

09:06communication I don't know how founder CEOs go around building and maintaining rapidly growing business as well as if you're going down and raising investment when we went through that that's that's two full-time roles and then that was a great example of when we decided to go and and raise Capital you know a lot of Connor time was spent on on doing that the upwards stakeholder management investor relations while I was able to lean into keeping the business going and maintaining and and the momentum that we needed so being able to split the roles we needed with what the company needs to

09:37do leaning to our strengths but being able to do it together is is fantastic highly recommend yeah that's great highly recommend as long as you're good communicators yeah as long as it works and you don't let your OS get in the way right CU you got to I think that's I reckon that's the main thing that gets in the way of Coos over time is just someone gets a little bit offended that some call was made or they're like you stepped on my toes and then it's like sh then everyone's doing best at any given time and and we're both aligned with that long-term Vision so keep pushing

10:04keep moving and make it work you've made the cooco format work quite well so far and so if you were to give advice to other Founders on the structure like how would you recommend what advice would you have on this co-ceo idea basically what I recommend it yes I would recommend it I think recommend it with a couple of flags is that we also knew each other we've known each other for 8 years when we first came into this we did that teaming exercise who are we as people how do we operate in teams how are we going to work dynamically so that I know exactly where Connor's going off somewhere like

10:41great I'm going to let Connor go there when I'm starting to really lean in or or or fight for all I want Conor knows that like there's a reason why Matt's going on on on that area knowing who you are and how you operate together is really important we're seeing in new zealands that the multi CEO is as a thing I think we looked at sh sharesies investment they have AO they've got AO shes and New Zealand have a three EO there are examples of where it worked if we weren't really honest with each other if we didn't really know who each other were deeply it probably would fall over

11:12and so recommend it but go into caution just because it works for us doesn't mean it's going to work for everybody else but what we do want to do is prove that we can build an incredibly successful business but be really well respected in how we grow and what trackit is as a place of work and the impact that can that we can have yeah everything you jump into in business in life like there's going to be an outcome and it's either going to be accidental or it's going to be designed the coast of your relationship is not something you can go into and be open to an accidental outcome you have to

11:43intentionally design the relationship your what Your roles are how you interact otherwise I don't think it would end well and and people aren't very good at doing that when things are busy and when they're hectic people forget that they leave it for too long so if you think you're that way inclined don't do the coasty thing if you're willing to put in the time and the effort go ahead maybe even rewinding further if you go to your personal backgrounds a little bit of your upbringing and also what some of the SEMA moments were that you think LED you to getting attracted to this world of

12:17startups and Technology I actually started my career as a corporate lawyer of all things kind of wasn't inspired by that uh so much which is probably easy to imagine but I like ended up raising a fund and almost going into the VC route first because I started Auckland New Zealand's first accelerator program and that was my like risk-free way of understanding everything I could about startups jumped into one of the startups that came through that program and that's that's when I met Matt now wife and I ended up running a surf and yoga retreat in Nicaragua at some point um inar yeah

12:51yeah we spent a year there and so yeah I'm I'm attracted by you know like kind of trying new things I've always always been a first principles thinker and I think that naturally you lend that lends itself to being in a startup and and maybe being a Founder in particular so yeah I think I was always going to end up here and have had a nice Meandering path getting here I also studied law and science I never went and practiced law but my first role in the world of tech was being part of the Uber team that launched Uber in New Zealand and so that was you know big Tech Big Brand that was

13:20coming across the other side of the world and being involved in that and you know startup mode but the backing of what Uber was in 2015 2016 that was the introduction to Tech and I said great let's get let's keep going in the in the startup world had the opportunity to move to Sydney that's where Connor and I move met on the first day back in New Zealand Connor was off to New York I was going off to Sydney that company was a company called Mish Guru it was looking after the snap uh Snapchat management platform and so we were working Keely with leading agencies and Brands to

13:45unlock Snapchat as a new channel and so that was the that was the real the the tow into to MK really helping modern brands use news new channels we there for you know 5 years or so and then ended up back in New Zealand linked up with Connor have always loved uh brands have always loved um an entrepreneurial spirit I guess growing up I ran Landscaping businesses and and pool cleaning and and car washing around the neighborhood so I don't know whether that's where my entrepreneurial Spirit came from but then Tech mtech and then now trackit tell us a little bit about

14:16New Zealand what is it like to grow up as a kiwi what is the tech scene this is a it's a great a great question I always like to get Connor's perspective on this um Connor brings the the best of the American and the best of the the New Zealand take s yeah I I was born in California and moved to New Zealand when I was 11 so I kind of have a bit of both matx I think I can dial up one or the other depending on what we need at trackx at any given time do we need wild ambition optimism and uh Ching those dreams and drive yeah a drive yeah or you know he can turn on the sort of the cool chill

14:52kiwi charm and and that's the other side so I mean growing up in New Zealand is amazing I always like to tell my American and friends that like my first week of school in New Zealand I got in trouble for wearing shoes that's like New Zealand culture it's so relaxed it's a wonderful place to grow up the tech scene I think is it's an exciting place if you talk to investors around the world a lot of them are starting to look at New Zealand and Australia because we've had a lot of success recently with the likes of canva and just like some big companies coming out of that part of

15:22the world and and we're starting to see second time third time operators or Founders coming through we're known for being highly efficient that's because we haven't had a lot of capital previously you're seeing these companies come out that are highly efficient they've it's a great place to test and learn and so it's a bit of a beta Nation because you've got a highly engaged small population the things that are coming out tend to have good product Market fit they're highly efficient and then they can kind of take the World by storm relatively quickly I visited New Zealand

15:52a few years ago and I learned that there are more sheep than humans who told who told you that everyone I think cows are actually the most now cows okay got it a lot of cows but there there is a big agretech sector like in New Zealand so yeah we have we have Rockets we have agretech and now we have truit y there we go and does that impact the way you thought of or think of the way you build a company in other words do most entrepreneurs think to go Global from day one because it's a relatively smaller Market or are there people still focused mostly on the domestic Market

16:27the global from day one I think there are so many different ways to build business and what the aspirations are and when you want to to take things absolutely at some point if you do have international intentions you need to leave New Zealand I mean there's only you know there's 5 A2 million people in New Zealand there's 25 million people in Australia so the same it's the same size as California how many hundreds of cows thousands of hundreds of millions but when you look at so when you look at the size of of New Zealand at 52 million and and Australia at about 25 it's the same

16:57as California and so depending on what you're doing and where you're trying to go absolutely people look you know offshore you can still build big business across Australia and New Zealand for us for you know for Conor and I with track we were so intentional about the way that we wanted to grow track a few scars and burns about trying to go Global too fast and and and product Market fit and that type of thing so with trackx right from the start we said hey look the back end of the technology that we're doing needs to be in a position that we can turn on any

17:24Market in the world when we're ready but we wanted to be super intentional about the way that we built do we have product Market fit are people paying us are we solving real problems are we building a great team are we building great brands that then enables us to go and scale so we started in New Zealand our New Zealand customers said can you do this in Australia great we moved into Australia we started working with Incredible Australian Brands like Culture Kings and Bondi Sands and then those businesses said hey look the us we've got a whole lot of Revenue in the

17:51US we're trying to figure out how to position what our competitors are doing where we should be spending our marketing dollars and so we went into know came into the US off the back of our our customers the same into the UK so we've been pulled into the markets which has allowed us to scale a team with our customers with product Market fit but always from the start absolutely Global from day one but not turning it on straight away and I think being from New Zealand and how intentional we are with our company Matt and I when we started we wanted to spend 50% of our

18:21energy on what we were building and creating a great product and and trying but we also wanted to like spend 50% of our energy on how we were building and sort of taking a great culture in our company and then kind of taking that culture to the world so we do have four Global offices now we've got Sydney New York and London on top of our our New Zealand Auckland head office and we've been putting some of our key members of our early team into those offices and we try to bring that New Zealand and that tracksuit culture to the world while making like a good amount of room and

18:53and setting space for that kind of local flavor to be a part of that in each office as well all right we'll end on uh can you share the story of hanging out with Sam Alman in Auckland I was launching Oakland's first accelerator program Sam Alman was like visiting New Zealand I think on a holiday not to like do anything official I just like bothered him in his Twitter DMS for a long time like hey you want to we go you're from California do you like surfing do you want to go no no answer do you want to like do something I don't know and eventually I got him like he

19:25said oh that'd be great when I said something like oh I can maybe get an investor to provide like a big boat and we could do a tour of the harbor and go so first of all I didn't have a boat um but he said oh that'd be great I'd love to meet some New Zealand startups so I went and found a 70ft boat from some investor in New Zealand go and we all went out on it but the investor was like he was like a a fishing guy like he he wanted to go fishing and he wanted to show these American visitors the great fish you can catch in New Zealand harbors and Sam was vegan at the time

19:58so like I got this boat but the only way we could use it is if the guy could take us fishing and so it was just like oh I'm sorry man like we're hauling up all these poor fish and you sitting there just like chilling in the inside of the boat talking to a few stups and yeah anyway so that was that was my interaction with Sam mman 15 years ago he was Running Y combinator and I was trying to launch New Zealand's first accelerator program and here we are here we are here we are amazing Bo thank you Matt thank you Connor we really appreciate it thanks T thank you